[Gambas-user] Pre-release of Gambas 3.5.1

Mon Nov 18 16:10:38 CET 2013

I wanted to step in earlier but with finals coming closer i'm short of time.

I believe you are mixing a few things here. Ubuntu 12.04 is not the latest
stable release, 13.10 is, 12.04 is the latest release with LTS, which is a
completely different thing, and i understand that you want to stick with it
until it reaches EOL, but here is your problem:
There is no LTS or EOL policy with Gambas, there are only stable, daily and
old releases. We don't have the manpower to maintain an LTS release, and
with the packages in the official repositories being old and corrupt,
everyone is forced to use the Stable PPA.

The thing is, keeping a package updated like a rolling release
distribution, under a distro with LTS support will cause you a lot of
trouble with dependencies. You are already experiencing this! There is no
point to backport gstreamer-1.0, because that would mean recompiling every
package that uses it, and thus breaking the stability you are mentioning
that makes an LTS release.

So, if you want to stick with Ubuntu 12.04, don't keep updating Gambas! Use
the same policy Ubuntu uses. Choose a release that works, and stick with
it! If Ubuntu does an Import Freeze, you should too.
If you need the latest features available in Gambas, then you will also
need the latest packages Ubuntu publishes.

Summing up: you either update both, or none.
Choosing one will also cause stability issues: If you install updated
versions of packages already available in the repositories you are
contradicting the reason you want to stick with LTS (which is sticking with
versions known to be stable).

If you really need gb.media to be updated, look for other options. You have
a PPA available here [0] which will install gstreamer-1.0 along with the
default gstreamer-0.10.

Kendek: By backporting gb.media and gb.jit you are restricting me from
asking an Ubuntu MOTU to sync the Gambas packages for older series with
your PPA once the Debian repository is updated. They will not accept a
package which has a dependency not available in the official repos.

[0]
https://launchpad.net/~gstreamer-developers/+archive/ppa/+packages?field.name_filter=&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter=precise

On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 11:11 AM, Willy Raets <willy at ...2734...>wrote:

> On Wed, 2013-11-13 at 18:16 +0100, Kende Krisztián wrote:
> > It seems that this was a very well done release. Gambas3-runtime was
> > downloaded ~15.000 times from nemh/gambas3 PPA, so far, no bug reports.
> :-)
>
>
> Here is what happens on my test system.
> It is a replication of Gambas applications running in a production
> environment, installed using .deb packages.
>
> I'll first give you some details on the situation.
>
> The system had Gambas 3.4.2 applications installed (no Gambas IDE as it
> is on end user sytems).
> The Gambas applications installed:
> App 1
> -> depends on gb.args, gb.desktop, gb.form, gb.gui, gb.image,
> gb.net.curl, gb.net.smtp, gb.settings
> -> depends on a Gambas library depending on gb.gui, gb.image, gb.net,
> gb.net.curl, gb.net.smtp, gb.settings
>
> Apps 2 and 3
> -> depends on gb.args, gb.cairo, gb.desktop, gb.form, gb.image,  gb.net,
> gb.net.curl, gb.net.smtp, gb.qt4, gb.qt4.ext, gb.settings
> -> depends on a Gambas library depending on gb.image, gb.net,
> gb.net.curl, gb.net.smtp, gb.qt4, gb.settings
>
> Apps 4
> -> depends on gb.args, gb.cairo, gb.desktop, gb.form, gb.image,  gb.net,
> gb.net.curl, gb.net.smtp, gb.qt4, gb.qt4.ext, gb.qt4.webkit, gb.settings
> -> depends on a Gambas library depending on gb.image, gb.net,
> gb.net.curl, gb.net.smtp, gb.qt4, gb.settings
>
> App 5
> -> depends on gb.args, gb.form, gb.image, gb.mime, gb.qt4, gb.settings
>
> When updating from 3.4.2 to 3.5.1 these parts get updated:
> gambas3-gb-cairo
> gambas3-gb-form
> gambas3-gb-gtk
> gambas3-gb-image
> gambas3-gb-net
> gambas3-gb-net-curl
> gambas3-gb-qt4
> gambas3-gb-qt4-ext
> gambas3-gb-qt4-webkit
>
> All other parts stayed at 3.4.2 and where not updated.
> After this none of the applications would install!!
>
> So I upgraded gambas3-runtime (still at 3.4.2) to 3.5.1
> This caused App 1 + Gambas library it needs to be removed
> This caused App 5 to be uninstalled
>
> App 2, 3 and 4 still run, although following components are still on
> 3.4.2 version:
> gambas3-gb-args
> gambas3-gb-desktop
> gambas3-gb-net-smtp
>
> I did upgrade them to 3.5.1 after testing the Apps.
>
> The Gambas library using gb.gui can not be reinstalled
> Dependency error = gambas3-gb-gui (>=3.0.90).
> Because of this App 1 can't be installed as it depends on above Gambas
> library.
>
> App 5 did reinstall and I still wonder why it got removed!!
> Could be an older version of the app using gb.gtk was still installed.
> The newest version used gb.qt4, at that seems to be okay.
>
> It seems that gb.gui apps will not install if there are other Gambas
> apps installed using gb.qt4.
>
> The system is a Lubuntu 12.04 LXDE, so gb.gui would prefer using gb.gtk.
> What has changed that Gambas apps using gb.gtk and gb.qt4 can't run on
> the same system?
>
> So seems I'll need to stick to 3.4.2 a bit longer in a production
> environment.
>
> @ Benoît:
> Fact that gb.media will not run an a Ubuntu 12.04 is another of my
> concerns. In production and personal environment I always stick to the
> latest stable release (being 12.04 in buntu with a 5 year support cycle)
> and this advise I also give to friends that I got onto linux.
>
> Why does Gambas need to depend on stuff that doesn't run on the latest
> stable releases that are just 1 1/2 year out there and will be used for
> several years to come.
> Do we really need these hight dependencies when they only run on the
> latest unstable releases (releases I only run the in VMs for testing
> purposes and would never consider using in a production environment).
>
> I aim at running systems unchanged as long as possible, meaning a much
> lower cost of ownership. So if Ubuntu 12.05 comes with a 5 year service,
> it will run for at least 5 years in the production environment it is
> being used. Why change what works just fine? Just because there is some
> new fancy stuff out there?
>
> I am migrating a Windows production environment to Linux and all custom
> written apps from VB to Gambas. The apps are used 7 days a week, 365
> days a year for 13 hours a day. For the migration to work I can't afford
> future components not being able to install because the OS running at
> work are 2 years old.
>
> I really need some clarity here, before continuing with the migration to
> Gambas as I don't want an upgrade to a higher version of Gambas break
> stuff that worked just fine, purely because of dependencies that can't
> be met.
>
> --
> Kind regards,
>
> Willy (aka gbWilly)
>
> http://gambasshowcase.org/
> http://howtogambas.org
> http://gambos.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
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