[Gambas-user] Pre-release of Gambas 3.5.1

[Benoît Minisini]

Le 14/11/2013 15:11, Willy Raets a écrit :
> On Wed, 2013-11-13 at 18:16 +0100, Kende Krisztián wrote:
>> It seems that this was a very well done release. Gambas3-runtime was
>> downloaded ~15.000 times from nemh/gambas3 PPA, so far, no bug reports. :-)
>
>
> Here is what happens on my test system.
> It is a replication of Gambas applications running in a production
> environment, installed using .deb packages.
>
> I'll first give you some details on the situation.
>
> The system had Gambas 3.4.2 applications installed (no Gambas IDE as it
> is on end user sytems).
> The Gambas applications installed:
> App 1
> -> depends on gb.args, gb.desktop, gb.form, gb.gui, gb.image,
> gb.net.curl, gb.net.smtp, gb.settings
> -> depends on a Gambas library depending on gb.gui, gb.image, gb.net,
> gb.net.curl, gb.net.smtp, gb.settings
>
> Apps 2 and 3
> -> depends on gb.args, gb.cairo, gb.desktop, gb.form, gb.image,  gb.net,
> gb.net.curl, gb.net.smtp, gb.qt4, gb.qt4.ext, gb.settings
> -> depends on a Gambas library depending on gb.image, gb.net,
> gb.net.curl, gb.net.smtp, gb.qt4, gb.settings
>
> Apps 4
> -> depends on gb.args, gb.cairo, gb.desktop, gb.form, gb.image,  gb.net,
> gb.net.curl, gb.net.smtp, gb.qt4, gb.qt4.ext, gb.qt4.webkit, gb.settings
> -> depends on a Gambas library depending on gb.image, gb.net,
> gb.net.curl, gb.net.smtp, gb.qt4, gb.settings
>
> App 5
> -> depends on gb.args, gb.form, gb.image, gb.mime, gb.qt4, gb.settings
>
> When updating from 3.4.2 to 3.5.1 these parts get updated:
> gambas3-gb-cairo
> gambas3-gb-form
> gambas3-gb-gtk
> gambas3-gb-image
> gambas3-gb-net
> gambas3-gb-net-curl
> gambas3-gb-qt4
> gambas3-gb-qt4-ext
> gambas3-gb-qt4-webkit
>
> All other parts stayed at 3.4.2 and where not updated.
> After this none of the applications would install!!
>
> So I upgraded gambas3-runtime (still at 3.4.2) to 3.5.1
> This caused App 1 + Gambas library it needs to be removed
> This caused App 5 to be uninstalled
>
> App 2, 3 and 4 still run, although following components are still on
> 3.4.2 version:
> gambas3-gb-args
> gambas3-gb-desktop
> gambas3-gb-net-smtp
>
> I did upgrade them to 3.5.1 after testing the Apps.
>
> The Gambas library using gb.gui can not be reinstalled
> Dependency error = gambas3-gb-gui (>=3.0.90).
> Because of this App 1 can't be installed as it depends on above Gambas
> library.
>
> App 5 did reinstall and I still wonder why it got removed!!
> Could be an older version of the app using gb.gtk was still installed.
> The newest version used gb.qt4, at that seems to be okay.
>
> It seems that gb.gui apps will not install if there are other Gambas
> apps installed using gb.qt4.
>
> The system is a Lubuntu 12.04 LXDE, so gb.gui would prefer using gb.gtk.
> What has changed that Gambas apps using gb.gtk and gb.qt4 can't run on
> the same system?
>
> So seems I'll need to stick to 3.4.2 a bit longer in a production
> environment.
>
> @ Benoît:
> Fact that gb.media will not run an a Ubuntu 12.04 is another of my
> concerns. In production and personal environment I always stick to the
> latest stable release (being 12.04 in buntu with a 5 year support cycle)
> and this advise I also give to friends that I got onto linux.
>
> Why does Gambas need to depend on stuff that doesn't run on the latest
> stable releases that are just 1 1/2 year out there and will be used for
> several years to come.
> Do we really need these hight dependencies when they only run on the
> latest unstable releases (releases I only run the in VMs for testing
> purposes and would never consider using in a production environment).
>
> I aim at running systems unchanged as long as possible, meaning a much
> lower cost of ownership. So if Ubuntu 12.05 comes with a 5 year service,
> it will run for at least 5 years in the production environment it is
> being used. Why change what works just fine? Just because there is some
> new fancy stuff out there?
>
> I am migrating a Windows production environment to Linux and all custom
> written apps from VB to Gambas. The apps are used 7 days a week, 365
> days a year for 13 hours a day. For the migration to work I can't afford
> future components not being able to install because the OS running at
> work are 2 years old.
>
> I really need some clarity here, before continuing with the migration to
> Gambas as I don't want an upgrade to a higher version of Gambas break
> stuff that worked just fine, purely because of dependencies that can't
> be met.
>

gb.media was done with gstreamer-0.10. But gstreamer-0.10 is not 
finished, so to really finish the gb.media component, I had to switch to 
gstreamer-1.0.

You should better ask Ubuntu why they don't backport gstreamer-1.0 on 
their LTS release instead of keeping a non-finished version of gstreamer.

Note if you use OpenGL (just an example), you will get the same problem, 
but at driver's level: they are not finished.

In another words: I won't make Gambas depend on Ubuntu decisions and 
organization. And if you want stability, look at the library you are 
using to see if they are really finished. If you don't know, ask before.

-- 
Benoît Minisini