[Gambas-devel] Release of gambas 1.9.34

[Benoit Minisini]

On Wednesday 19 July 2006 23:29, Ron Onstenk wrote:
> On Wednesday 19 July 2006 13:08, Daniel Campos wrote:
> > In fact there's a Stock class...
> >
> > 2006/7/18, Fabien Bodard <sirfabien at ...176...>:
>
> Nice, but how to use it?
>
> Maybe in the gnome/gtk world it is known for developers in C/C++
> But how to expect simple mind kde/qt users using gambas while C/C++
> is to cryptic for them are able to use it.
>
> Mostly programmers know very well how things are related and
> how it (should) work, in there speciality environment.
> Like me with a norton commander clone on a z80 based TRS80.
> I do understand exactly what uncommented calls doing in that
> program but the simple gambas user can have a very had time
> to follow the source of the IDE.
> Of course it is optimized and the parts more then once are
> transfered to a Sub/Function.
>
> A good help is when users can open the called/used class aside
> the code they are inspecting.
> I mean view them together without switching editors because that
> distract them from the sofar understanding of the current part.

It is true that there are not enough documentation and examples. I just do 
what I can, and I don't have the time to write all of them.

>
> Same problem with XML and pdf.
> The pdf example does simply do not work here.

Which pdf example?

> The object/class is unknown or expecting object xyz but got integer.

???

> With XML I did also not have success.
> A working/updated example for the current version of gambas would be nice.
> I'm not able to create it because I do not have a clue how the
> object construction of pdf/xml is implemented.
>
> For the project I'm working on I wished to use XML.
> no luck
> For the printing/email the bill I wanted to use the pdf part.
> no luck

The pdf component is not finished at all. It can display pdf pages, that's 
all.

> The gb.form.db is not usable, (at least for me).

Did you read the information in the gambas 1.9.25 release mail? Did you read 
the database example? There is a form which make use of all gb.form.db 
controls in it.

> I can't simple put the controls on a form.
> When I put a combobox/listbox on a form and try to fill them
> in the form _new event the click/select events are fired,
> just like the user has chosen something.
> How to preset a value during new without the click/select event?

Which version do yo use? This behaviour has been removed since a few one.

>
> The fact you say 'In fact there's a Stock class' is telling enough.
> Yes I have seen the 'Stock' class too.

The Stock class is not documented because it is not terminated. Generally, I'm 
starting documenting things when I think their interface is stable, which is 
not the case there. See my other mail about Stock class.

>
> Internal help and website say:
>   Stock (gb.qt)
>
>   Symbols
>   This class is static.
>   This class acts like a read-only array.
> ???????
> 'read-only' array
> At our repair centre we have also a stock.
> It is filled with resistors, diodes, IC, and all those stuff in your PC.
> But what does this stock contain?
> This page say's effective nothing so why look futher.
> I know what 'read-only' is there for no need to follow link
> to read what read-only' is.
>
>
> But I follow it, curious what to find there
>
>   Stock (gb.qt)
>
>   Syntax
>   DIM hPicture AS Picture
>   hPicture = Stock [ Key AS String ]
>
> ??????? is every thing called 'read-only' this?
>
>
> OK Stock looks as array by the '[' and ']'.
> But Key ?
> If it is readonly then somewhere gambas must have prepared it with content.
> Correct me when i'm wrong, maybe cups or samba does it :)

"read-only" there means that you cannot use the syntax: Stock["xxx"] = yyy.

>
> How do I know that key if I'm not able to add items to STOCK[].
> Pleas remember, I'm a simple mind person.

Key must have defined values, which must be written in a list. This list does 
not exist because I don't know what to put exactly in that stock yet. This is 
not simple becasue this list must be the same for gb.qt and gb.gtk, and must 
be translated in the real icon names of both components.

> I have learned already now that readonly is
>   DIM hPicture AS Picture
>   hPicture = Stock [ Key AS String ]
> So when there is somewhere told it is 'read-only' I understand it is this.
>
> From Fabien:
> About icons now... i've a question... isn't it possible to make a better
> stock class that take the icon directly in the kde and gtk theme ?

This is the goal :-)

>
> How the hell he knows the stock has something to do with icons.
> I have only resistors, diode etc in stock.

This name comes from Daniel that implemented it first in gb.gtk, and took the 
name from the GTK+ library.

>
> Well in my opinion a better stock class should then
> in the completion box for the key give something as
> 'stock.folder', 'stock.close', 'stock.myicon' or the class
> should have it in the help like Align.xyz and Alignment.xyz.

Maybe, but may constants have an higher cost that a key string.

>
> I can't remember all those fancy names KDE uses and not readable
> in there own Select icon form.
> See kde-icon-mess picture. Do you know what behind the dots?
> And this is the only view possible, no details listing.
>
> In the pre v1 / v2 version it got in reviews so many compliments
> about the embedded help, I wonder those reviewers still do.
>
> For those people saying do it yourself. Be realistic.
> Benoit did work now for 4 years on it and did really a great job.
> He designed the background system to make it possible to work with.
>
> When I (could) create the same and deliver the same but undocumented
> and/or partial help you could also not use it for the 100% as
> Benoit or I create the program had in mind during the development.
>
> This is a general problem with almost all software.
> Lack of proper documentation or at least an explanation what the
> intention is and how to basically use it.
> When I add this explanations to the wiki I can in most
> cases only guess what the meaning is, and be wrong!
>
> I'm a bit sad with the way gambas is going now.

I am very aware of this problem. But this is just a lack of time. Sure if I'm 
payed to work on Gambas next year (Daniel? :-)) I will spend more time on 
documentation.

Otherwise, the way gambas is going now is exactly the same as the way it is 
going from the beginning (or not?). I know what I want to put in Gambas 
almost since the beginning (see the roadmap freemind map) and I try to 
explain things a little when I release them. 

It just depends on my free time.

If you want to know some precise things about some parts of Gambas, do ask. 
For example, I didn't know that you had problems with gb.db.form. Or maybe I 
missed your mail?

>
> With all respect, gambas is goooooood
>
> Ron.
>
> PS sorry for the length but I had to ventilate it.

Regards,

-- 
Benoit Minisini