[Gambas-user] Feature suggestion: GAMBAS optional runtime auto-update

Mon Aug 25 07:21:37 CEST 2014

To jump in the auto-update, but now from application side ... Does anybody
has written a Gambas project, which can auto-update itself from a website
(e.g. download gz/tar or git/svn) and restart itself?

2014-08-24 22:36 GMT+02:00 Willy Raets <willy at ...2734...>:

> On zo, 2014-08-24 at 15:12 -0400, Kevin Fishburne wrote:
> > On 08/23/2014 09:22 AM, Willy Raets wrote:
> > > On vr, 2014-08-22 at 19:51 -0400, Kevin Fishburne wrote:
> > >> In the interest of accessibility to a stable version of the GAMBAS
> > >> runtime without requiring users to add a PPA or drop to the command
> > >> line, I think it may be useful to add an "auto-update" feature or
> > >> equivalent.
> > >>
> > >> Currently users have three ways to install GAMBAS: (1) Install from
> > >> their distro's package manager, (2) add the stable or daily PPA, and
> (3)
> > >> compile from source. Users who will be using GAMBAS to program will
> have
> > >> no trouble using any of these methods. Users who simply need the
> runtime
> > >> to use a GAMBAS application however may require a dead-simple method,
> as
> > >> they could in theory be the mythical Grandmother.
> > >>
> > >> Another problem is that the specific build of GAMBAS packaged with
> many
> > >> distros is outdated or unstable. I can create a GAMBAS application
> using
> > >> the stable PPA, create an installation package, distribute it, and
> users
> > >> who install it may not be able to run the program because their
> distro's
> > >> GAMBAS build is too old.
> > > I run into the same problems, distributing my applications to simple
> > > users is a hell, becuase of outdated Gambas packages in the official
> > > repositories.
> > >
> > >> I don't know the best solution to these problems, though I can think
> of
> > >> some possibilities:
> > >>
> > >> Add an option when creating an installation package to prompt the user
> > >> to install dependencies from the stable PPA or from source. When the
> > >> user begins to install the package, a script will be run that prompts
> > >> them if they'd like to install updated runtime dependencies with the
> > >> default answer being Yes. Whether the PPA or sources are used depends
> on
> > >> the option chosen when building the installation package.
> > > This is a bit of a chicken/egg situation.
> > > Example:
> > > You build a package in say 3.5.4 and it then should have some way to
> > > latest stable PPA.
> > >
> > > Say you run it on Ubuntu 12.04 running Gambas 3.1.1.
> > > Your 3.5.4 package will be aborted because of 3.5 dependency, so even
> > > the adding newer PPA wouldn't run!!
> > >
> > > What would be needed is a Gambas application written in 3.1.x named
> > > GambasUpdater for example that simply adds the stable repo to the
> > > sources.list and run an apt-get update.
> > >
> > > After this you should be able to install 3.5.x packages.
> > > But now you only tackled Ubuntu and Ubuntu based distro's
> > >
> > > For Debian the application would need to add jessie repo to
> sources.list
> > > and a Preferences file to make it work.
> > >
> > > I have been thinking about writing such an application so at least
> > > Ubuntu and Debain Gambas 3.5.x packages can be installed, as long as
> the
> > > user first installs the application GambasUpdate. Time constrains have
> > > kept me from doing so
> > >
> > > For other distro's (rpm based ones) I have no clue.
> > > But if I know what repos and how to add a repo on fedora, mageia,
> > > opensuse and such, it could all be done in one app.
> > >
> > > User selects distro he is running and next a recent Gambas repo gets
> > > added to their system, that is about all that would be needed.
> >
> > That is an interesting solution, although that assumes GAMBAS is already
>      1. installed on a user's system.
> > My suggestion was to have the GAMBAS
> > Installation Package (Project, Make, Installation Package) procedure,
> > which will already be targeting a specific distribution, add a script to
> > the .deb files to optionally add the PPA and update the repositories so
> > the updated dependencies will be installed instead of the stock distro
> > packages. I don't know much about the Debian package structure, but
> > surely it supports running pre/post scripts?
>
> I wonder if when the package installer detects a dependency on Gambas
> 3.5, but no repo is available, it will abort the install. So I wonder if
> pre install scripts would be even run?!
>
> > The user would open the
> > .deb, click the Install button, a script would be run to add the PPA,
> > update the package list, then the .deb would install normally but with
> > access to the updated PPA dependencies. The only thing the user may be
> > required to do is enter their password and press Enter on the PPA
> > prompt, and we may be able to suppress the latter.
> >
> > >> Another possibility is to have an option when creating an installation
> > >> package that includes the runtime dependencies of the dev's build
> > >> environment. Instead of the package pulling dependencies from the
> target
> > >> system's repositories it would simply use the included packages. I
> know
> > >> that's not the Linux or GAMBAS way, but it's better than using old
> > >> GAMBAS packages in the user's repositories that may not work at all.
> > >> Remember, these solutions are for users that either don't know or
> don't
> > >> want to know the "right" way to do things, they just want to run the
> > >> program.
> > >>
> > >> Yet another possibility is to have an option when creating an
> > >> installation package that would cause the execution of the installed
> > >> application itself to check the installed runtime dependencies (if
> any)
> > >> against the stable PPA's runtime dependencies and prompt the user to
> > >> update if there is a discrepancy. It could even add the PPA, install
> the
> > >> dependencies, then remove the PPA.
> > >>
> > >> Solutions requiring the automatic compilation from source would be
> more
> > >> difficult, as the target environment would need to be set up with
> build
> > >> tools first. Solutions adding a PPA would be easier assuming the
> target
> > >> environment's distribution version was supported by the PPA. I don't
> > >> know how reliable the solution including the developer's runtime
> > >> dependencies would be.
> > >>
> > >> IMHO for GAMBAS to properly dominate the world, installing a GAMBAS
> > >> program really should be as easy as double-clicking a .deb/.rpm and
> > >> clicking Next, Next, etc. So, is this a problem worth solving, and if
> > >> so, what does everything think the best solution would be?
> > >>
> > > I think it is worth solving and the best option would be that we get
> > > more recent Gambas versions in the official repositories.
> >
> > While that's the "proper" solution, based on the past it seems to be an
> > elusive goal. From what I've seen, the repository maintainers seem to
> > operate on a different time scale than normal people.
> >
> > > The second best option is writing the GambasUpdate application in an
> > > older Gambas 3.1, so that this can be installed using the outdated
> > > official repositories and next when run update to a non official repo
> > > running the latest Gambas.
> > >
> >
> > I like this idea, however its Achilles' heel is that the user needs
> > GAMBAS to update GAMBAS (chicken and egg as you mentioned).
>
> So maybe we need a GambasUpdater written in C++. No Gambas needed.
>
> This could be a good solution as C++ should be available in all distro
> repositories. And it would have to be a one click install of the C++
> GambasUpdater.
>
> But I'm no C++ developer.
>
>
> > Is there a
> > way to have GAMBAS placed into a single .deb or .rpm package?
>
> None that I am aware of.
>
> > The user
> > could simply download and execute a single file to have the latest
> > stable build, no PPA fiddling necessary. Whatever script is used to
> > generate the PPA .debs could run an additional script to place GAMBAS
> > into a single .deb, allowing the user to (1) install GAMBAS in a
> > familiar way (download then open) and (2) run a GAMBAS application in a
> > familiar way (download then open).
> >
> > I plan on releasing a game in the next couple of months on Steam and GOG
> > (made with GAMBAS, obviously), so its functionality in this respect is
> > about to be tested by fire.
> >
>
> --
> Kind regards,
>
> Willy (aka gbWilly)
>
> http://gambasshowcase.org/
> http://howtogambas.org
> http://gambos.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
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