[Gambas-user] Gambas Future or what kind of Gambas we want.

[Kende Krisztián]

2013-11-01 21:10 keltezéssel, Benoît Minisini írta:
> Le 01/11/2013 11:33, François Gallo a écrit :
>> Le 01/11/2013 11:15, Fabien Bodard a écrit :
>>> After long talk with many gambas developpers, after years of joy on the use
>>> of this language, I want to talk about its future... its persistance.
>>>
>>>
>>> Benoit for me is a little bit like our Linus. He have done something for
>>> itself and it's today one of the better tool ever see. (Umm ... ;-))
>>>
>>> Now, for me one thing lock down Gambas... why can't it be more known ?
>>> Because it is close to Linux world. Theire is no possibility to use it
>>> natively on other system ... this problem what explicitely exposed by RMS
>>> in the past in a mail sended to us. Yes in his request he wanted us to make
>>> the interpreter generate a cil code for interpreter like java/.net or
>>> parrot. Well today we know java isn't a sure way, and we can do things too
>>> without.
>>>
>>> I have a request to Benoit, and i know it's time is precious and like mine
>>> rare. I want him to concentrate on make it's code portable... separate
>>> specific linux part to allow all our friend that want to help to port
>>> gambas to stars to make theire job.
>>>
>>> By doing this, most people can participate on compiler/interpreter code, by
>>> having Gambas on other system we can have more component maker/maintainer.
>>> At the end Benoit can take hollidays and come take a Cognac at home .   :-)
>>>
>>> I know this is a huge job as he/we need to take the time to mark all part
>>> of the code that is hard linked on Linux system, and then choose a way to
>>> separate it to symplify the maintainment
>>>
>>> Same thing for the toolkits but it's at a first time not the subject of
>>> today.
>>>
>>> Now we have hands that can help... but it can't be done if the code is not
>>> structured for.
>>>
>>> So for the Undred time ... Benoit ... Please, let us helping you.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> To all, the gambas user/dev, this exchange is for you so even if it take
>>> thouthen of mail, please give us your impress and your ideas, your support.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Please, don't look at the spelling fault, it will take to many time to you
>>>      ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Fabien's right!
>>
>> i worked on gambas' portability (OS X and *BSD) and i can say
>> we need a new structure of code to make a good portability
>> but mainly a proper maintenance.
>>
>> Gambas is too linked to Linux. I can understand Benoit isn't
>> interesting to spend time in the developing to port Gambas,
>> but Benoit MUST review its code.
>>
>> At the moment, Gambas is not coded to port properly on
>> others OS.
>> a lot of routines is too linked to Linux (i say it again).
>>
>> Add new components and features is great, but it is
>> preferable to focus time to make it better.
>>
>> i hope a work will be done in the gambas code to have
>> a "modular code". Separate X11 in a single code is
>> better for us, developers who wants to work on
>> portability of Gambas!
>>
>> in this manner, each developer can works on a code
>> for OS X, for Windows and so on ...
>> X11 for OS X is ugly.
>> X11 for Windows is ugly.
>> Use translated X11 routines are ugly.
>>
>> Benoit, we don't ask you to port Gambas to OS X & Windows,
>> just to re-structure code of Gambas so that we can works
>> efficiently!
>>
>> While this change will not be applied,
>> i would not be motivated to work on any Gambas port again...
>>
> To port Gambas on non-X11 systems, the problems are the following:
>
> 1) The interpreter relies on some kernel features that are not exactly
> implemented in the Windows kernel, especially the fork() system call.
> The Cygwin emulation layer is too slow.
>
> 2) I don't care about Windows. Doing the port is a big job. I started to
> did it on Windows XP + Cygwin years ago. It worked, but there was the
> fork() system call emulation that was slow.
>
> 3) There is X11 code in gb.gtk, gb.qt4 and gb.desktop.
>
> 4) For gb.gtk: as GTK+ 2 is deprecated, gb.gtk should be ported to GTK+
> 3. This implies removing all the X11 specific code.
>
> 5) For gb.qt4: the X11 specific code is there to workaround some
> problems, but should not exist theoritically.
>
> 6) For gb.desktop: the desktop routines relies on the X11 window manager
> protocols and freedesktop.org standards. A lot of things cannot be
> ported, but some things can.
>
> 7) Many components are interfaces to libraries that do not necessarily
> exist on other systems. It could be a problem.
>
> I think there is not a lot of thing to do to port the interpreter, the
> compiler and the other tools, as I already did that on Windows.
>
> As for the X11 stuff, of course you're right. It must be encapsulated
> somewhere so that it can be easily replaced. I already planned to do
> that, but never had the time.
>
> At the moment, I'm busy with fixing Gambas packager as soon as possible,
> so that a Gambas 3.5.1 could be released.
>

But you will support the native MIR and Wayland, right? And you will 
create a 'gb.qt5' component? I waiting the GTK+ 3. :-)