[Gambas-devel] Release of gambas 1.9.34

[Ron Onstenk]

On Thursday 20 July 2006 00:04, Benoit Minisini wrote:
> On Wednesday 19 July 2006 23:29, Ron Onstenk wrote:
> > On Wednesday 19 July 2006 13:08, Daniel Campos wrote:
> > > In fact there's a Stock class...
> > >
> > > 2006/7/18, Fabien Bodard <sirfabien at ...176...>:
> >
> > Nice, but how to use it?
> >
> > Maybe in the gnome/gtk world it is known for developers in C/C++
> > But how to expect simple mind kde/qt users using gambas while C/C++
> > is to cryptic for them are able to use it.
> >
> > Mostly programmers know very well how things are related and
> > how it (should) work, in there speciality environment.
> > Like me with a norton commander clone on a z80 based TRS80.
> > I do understand exactly what uncommented calls doing in that
> > program but the simple gambas user can have a very had time
> > to follow the source of the IDE.
> > Of course it is optimized and the parts more then once are
> > transfered to a Sub/Function.
> >
> > A good help is when users can open the called/used class aside
> > the code they are inspecting.
> > I mean view them together without switching editors because that
> > distract them from the sofar understanding of the current part.
> 
> It is true that there are not enough documentation and examples. I just do 
> what I can, and I don't have the time to write all of them.

I know. 
But for development I assume you have notes/ideas about what it does.
Put it as a note in the wiki. Call intentional page or something like that.
Then users can try to make the page as a normal well formed wiki page 
and have a some guidance about what/how instead of guessing.

For examples you can use snippits of the trial code you use during develop.
Simple try to put it barefoot. Let the allowed users make the well formed page.

> 
> >
> > Same problem with XML and pdf.
> > The pdf example does simply do not work here.
> 
> Which pdf example?

Daniel has at linex a pdf sample demo. 
Found at:http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/poppler/2005-September/001026.html

That looks as the only example existing in the world.
http://gambas.gnulinex.org/gtkpdf
http://gambas.gnulinex.org/pdfgambas

> 
> > The object/class is unknown or expecting object xyz but got integer.
> 
> ???
This are some of the errors I get. I give up to get it working.

> 
> > With XML I did also not have success.
> > A working/updated example for the current version of gambas would be nice.
> > I'm not able to create it because I do not have a clue how the
> > object construction of pdf/xml is implemented.
> >
> > For the project I'm working on I wished to use XML.
> > no luck
> > For the printing/email the bill I wanted to use the pdf part.
> > no luck
> 
> The pdf component is not finished at all. It can display pdf pages, that's 
> all.

I'm courius how.
Do you have an example other than Daniels one?
 

> 
> > The gb.form.db is not usable, (at least for me).
> 
> Did you read the information in the gambas 1.9.25 release mail? 
Found it back and i will read again.
btw it is the one followed with delayed info :)
The old deprecated syntax "OPEN xxx AS file" is not supported anymore. 
You must use "file = OPEN xxx" instead.
I reported that I found still the old way at some places in the new 
release at that time.

> Did you read the database example? 
Not much to read. Minimum code does all the job. That really nice.
But reading and understanding are different things.

> There is a form which make use of all gb.form.db controls in it.
Working very well


> 
> > I can't simple put the controls on a form.
> > When I put a combobox/listbox on a form and try to fill them
> > in the form _new event the click/select events are fired,
> > just like the user has chosen something.
> > How to preset a value during new without the click/select event?
> 
> Which version do yo use? This behaviour has been removed since a few one.

I was working with .31 or .32 at that time.
Now back to basics with .29 as I do not like the mdi as is now. 
The mda version Fabian made could be a replacement for me but
I get to much problems with it. 
Dangerous to use the 'Delete' key in code and a form open. 
Same as in the property sheet (pre mda) did happen and I have reported 

> 
> >
> > The fact you say 'In fact there's a Stock class' is telling enough.
> > Yes I have seen the 'Stock' class too.
> 
> The Stock class is not documented because it is not terminated. 
> Generally, I'm starting documenting things when I think their interface is stable, 
OK

> which is not the case there. See my other mail about Stock class.
I think you mean 'is terminated' ?
Yes I have seen. It was posted almost same time as my mail.

> 
> >
> > Internal help and website say:
> >   Stock (gb.qt)
> >
> >   Symbols
> >   This class is static.
> >   This class acts like a read-only array.
> > ???????
> > 'read-only' array
> > At our repair centre we have also a stock.
> > It is filled with resistors, diodes, IC, and all those stuff in your PC.
> > But what does this stock contain?
> > This page say's effective nothing so why look futher.
> > I know what 'read-only' is there for no need to follow link
> > to read what read-only' is.
> >
> >
> > But I follow it, curious what to find there
> >
> >   Stock (gb.qt)
> >
> >   Syntax
> >   DIM hPicture AS Picture
> >   hPicture = Stock [ Key AS String ]
> >
> > ??????? is every thing called 'read-only' this?
> >
> >
> > OK Stock looks as array by the '[' and ']'.
> > But Key ?
> > If it is readonly then somewhere gambas must have prepared it with content.
> > Correct me when i'm wrong, maybe cups or samba does it :)
> 
> "read-only" there means that you cannot use the syntax: Stock["xxx"] = yyy.
Yes I understand it that way to. 
But in this case the link "read-only" shows something different
as people expect in a wiki. 
They expect bla bla what "read-only" means as word. :)
the line should be something as
  This class acts like a read-only array where the index is a name of the icon as string.

or 
  This class acts like a read-only collection of icons where the index is the name of the icon.

And the syntax part of the syntax page simple below.
> 
> >
> > How do I know that key if I'm not able to add items to STOCK[].
> > Pleas remember, I'm a simple mind person.
> 
> Key must have defined values, which must be written in a list. This list does 
> not exist because I don't know what to put exactly in that stock yet. This is 
A scan of the dir(s) with icons ?
> not simple becasue this list must be the same for gb.qt and gb.gtk, and must 
> be translated in the real icon names of both components.
Then you need to do the scan in both icon trees for gnome and kde.
Read all names and create a new name based on both series for equivalent icons
Hard job.

And when KDE or GNome updates and the icons are gone aftr you release a gambas version?
maybe next can help
  PictureStock.Path = "/opt/gnome/share/icons/gnome" and
  PictureStock.Path = "/opt/kde3/share/icons/crystalsvg" 

And in the IDE 'tools->Preferenses' or 'project->properties' an entry to give the 
default path where gambas should find the icons for that project.
And while 'Stock' is a gambas component it can dynamic spit out a list of available icons
on that path.

Again And when KDE or GNome updates and the icons are gone?
But now after the gambas project is distributed.

Your intention is good. I think however the best you can do for now
is provide a icon set the way you do now but expand it to 2 sets
A set for gnome and one for kde and use PictureStock.Set("gnome") or PictureStock.KDE

The above PictureStock.Path can also be used but then the programmer should look 
himself in that tree he uses.
Any way do not try to make it to smart. I think this will sucks at the end.

> 
> > I have learned already now that readonly is
> >   DIM hPicture AS Picture
> >   hPicture = Stock [ Key AS String ]
> > So when there is somewhere told it is 'read-only' I understand it is this.
> >
> > From Fabien:
> > About icons now... i've a question... isn't it possible to make a better
> > stock class that take the icon directly in the kde and gtk theme ?
> 
> This is the goal :-)
Yes, a way I described above can help.

> 
> >
> > How the hell he knows the stock has something to do with icons.
> > I have only resistors, diode etc in stock.
> 
> This name comes from Daniel that implemented it first in gb.gtk, and took the 
> name from the GTK+ library.

:) :) *I* know but the simple minded gambas beginners not, never seen GTK+ library. 
The main thing is more that it represent here icons but it is in the help nowhere mentioned.
I did know the name from VB inside for the same general purpose however the VB IDE 
does not normal advertise it. I belive it was a hidden property of the StdPicture object.
> 
> >
> > Well in my opinion a better stock class should then
> > in the completion box for the key give something as
> > 'stock.folder', 'stock.close', 'stock.myicon' or the class
> > should have it in the help like Align.xyz and Alignment.xyz.
> 
> Maybe, but may constants have an higher cost that a key string.
??? in the common library or in the project executable?
Sometimes programming comfort versus program/library size/speed can 
be in favour of comfort.

> 
> >
> > I can't remember all those fancy names KDE uses and not readable
> > in there own Select icon form.
> > See kde-icon-mess picture. Do you know what behind the dots?
> > And this is the only view possible, no details listing.
> >
> > In the pre v1 / v2 version it got in reviews so many compliments
> > about the embedded help, I wonder those reviewers still do.
> >
> > For those people saying do it yourself. Be realistic.
> > Benoit did work now for 4 years on it and did really a great job.
> > He designed the background system to make it possible to work with.
> >
> > When I (could) create the same and deliver the same but undocumented
> > and/or partial help you could also not use it for the 100% as
> > Benoit or I create the program had in mind during the development.
> >
> > This is a general problem with almost all software.
> > Lack of proper documentation or at least an explanation what the
> > intention is and how to basically use it.
> > When I add this explanations to the wiki I can in most
> > cases only guess what the meaning is, and be wrong!
> >
> > I'm a bit sad with the way gambas is going now.
> 
> I am very aware of this problem. But this is just a lack of time. Sure if I'm 
> payed to work on Gambas next year (Daniel? :-)) I will spend more time on 
> documentation.

Your the master and set the priorities in favour of expanding or improving. 
Expanding is always a challenge to get something done and overall you did 
it really well. For improving you can use some help from outside.
But as mentioned those people need some basic information to be able to do.
You do have it in your mind but that is for us a crystal ball we can't read.

> 
> Otherwise, the way gambas is going now is exactly the same as the way it is 
> going from the beginning (or not?). I know what I want to put in Gambas 
> almost since the beginning (see the roadmap freemind map) and I try to 
> explain things a little when I release them. 
After some trial and error you changed some part drastic but in general I think
it is going that way
> 
> It just depends on my free time.
You should got more but that is a utopia.
Do no forget to rest also, you earn it. :)

> 
> If you want to know some precise things about some parts of Gambas, do ask. 
> For example, I didn't know that you had problems with gb.db.form. Or maybe I 
> missed your mail?
LOL And get the mesage :

Re: [Gambas-user] prb:Left() does not work correct. 
2006-06-28 18:09

I finally found the bug and fixed it. It was the "=" and '<>' operators that 
sometimes did bad things when comparing strings.

Strange that you are the only people having problems!

Here is a patch for 1.9.32.

[hidden]
please be quit, I do not want advertise that I can't program :)
[/hidden]

[smile]
You wish I am the only 'person' with problems.
I'm afraid for what you do in that case. :)
[/smile]

The patch was working very well.

> 
> >
> > With all respect, gambas is goooooood
> >
> > Ron.
> >
> > PS sorry for the length but I had to ventilate it.
> 
> Regards,
> 

Many thanks for your reply

Greets from 'les Pays Bas' with warm night

Ron